Comments on: Bicycles on the Shoulder http://flbikelaw.org/2010/02/bicycles-on-the-shoulder/ Questions, answers and news about Florida bicycle laws and law enforcement Sun, 13 May 2012 12:08:51 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Ron http://flbikelaw.org/2010/02/bicycles-on-the-shoulder/comment-page-1/#comment-224 Ron Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:06:14 +0000 http://flbikelaw.org/?p=423#comment-224 Thank you, George. A bit off topic, but, does that mean that the 3 foot rule applies to vehicles overtaking cyclists that are traveling on the shoulder, outside of the lane edge line? Thank you, George.

A bit off topic, but, does that mean that the 3 foot rule applies to vehicles overtaking cyclists that are traveling on the shoulder, outside of the lane edge line?

]]> By: Geo http://flbikelaw.org/2010/02/bicycles-on-the-shoulder/comment-page-1/#comment-223 Geo Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:45:56 +0000 http://flbikelaw.org/?p=423#comment-223 The boundary line referred to here is not the curb or edge line of the roadway. It is the property line at the outside of the entire right-of-way. The "highway" includes everything within that area, including the roadway, the median, a paved or unpaved shoulder, a paved sidewalk, even a woods area, if any. You are correct that I said the sidewalk includes the paved shoulder. Since I made that statement, there is a considerable discussion and difference of opinion among some of us about the placement of the comma in the definition of "sidewalk". I intentionally avoided using that in the answer since it doesn't affect the question. FS 316.003 - Definitions (47) Sidewalk - That portion of a street between the curbline, or lateral line, of a roadway and the adjacent property lines, intended for use by pedestrians. I believe that means the entire area from the edge line to the property or boundary line. Others believe that means only some portion of that area, not including the paved shoulder. Other documentation, such as the MUTCD, does not use a comma and is more definitive. It refers to a specific paved or otherwise prepared surface for pedestrian use. Maybe someday we will get a legal opinion or other clarification. Any attorneys or English majors out there want to offer an opinion? For the purpose of this question though, we don't need that clarification. The shoulder is part of the highway. The boundary line referred to here is not the curb or edge line of the roadway. It is the property line at the outside of the entire right-of-way. The “highway” includes everything within that area, including the roadway, the median, a paved or unpaved shoulder, a paved sidewalk, even a woods area, if any.

You are correct that I said the sidewalk includes the paved shoulder. Since I made that statement, there is a considerable discussion and difference of opinion among some of us about the placement of the comma in the definition of “sidewalk”. I intentionally avoided using that in the answer since it doesn’t affect the question.

FS 316.003 – Definitions
(47) Sidewalk – That portion of a street between the curbline, or lateral line, of a roadway and the adjacent property lines, intended for use by pedestrians.

I believe that means the entire area from the edge line to the property or boundary line.

Others believe that means only some portion of that area, not including the paved shoulder.

Other documentation, such as the MUTCD, does not use a comma and is more definitive. It refers to a specific paved or otherwise prepared surface for pedestrian use.

Maybe someday we will get a legal opinion or other clarification. Any attorneys or English majors out there want to offer an opinion?

For the purpose of this question though, we don’t need that clarification. The shoulder is part of the highway.

]]> By: Ron Fisher http://flbikelaw.org/2010/02/bicycles-on-the-shoulder/comment-page-1/#comment-222 Ron Fisher Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:08:07 +0000 http://flbikelaw.org/?p=423#comment-222 I am unsure if you are interpreting the phrase "any part thereof" as including the paved shoulder. Doesn't the lack of any separating punctuation in the (53(a)) definition of "Highway" define that all listed locations are confined to, and limited by the "between the boundary lines" definition? At one meeting you even said that the paved shoulder (that which is outside the boundary lines,) out to the edge of the right-of-way is considered (in just some, or all locations?) to be "sidewalk." However, I do agree that cyclists riding on the shoulder need to obey all traffic control devices. It just makes good common sense. I am unsure if you are interpreting the phrase “any part thereof” as including the paved shoulder.
Doesn’t the lack of any separating punctuation in the (53(a)) definition of “Highway”
define that all listed locations are confined to, and limited by the “between the boundary lines” definition?
At one meeting you even said that the paved shoulder (that which is outside the boundary lines,) out to the edge of the right-of-way is considered (in just some, or all locations?) to be “sidewalk.”
However, I do agree that cyclists riding on the shoulder need to obey all traffic control devices. It just makes good common sense.

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